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Sunday, January 17, 2010

Race in Hungary


Just before the holidays Dora and I were eating dinner when we heard a man yelling down in the street. I went to open the window. We could then hear the clearly drunk man chanting the Hungarian equivalent of "Jew go home."

How can you respond to that - especially when you live in the 7th District, the traditionally Jewish district of Budapest?

I've used this space in the past to vent about Hungary's troubled relationship with the minority communities in its borders. It's a topic that gets me riled for two reasons:
1) The worst of examples are violent and motivated by little more than demagoguery.
2) As an outsider, more often than not my views on the issue are dismissed out of hand.

That's a frustrating place to be when you would like to seek a deeper understanding of a problem - perhaps even engage in a constructive effort to improve things.

That frustration is very much related to the paper I'm working on. Much of the reading I've been doing for this project is about young people who do not fit the profile of the typical college student. The effort to bring their views into the academic community seems like a noble cause, but like so many noble causes, it's complicated. In order to interact with an established community, a person must learn and accept the methods the community uses to interact: who is considered an authority, what gives a person the right to challenge an idea/argument, what beliefs are held as truths. These kinds of interactions are dictated by culture and values. So if you want to bring an outsider in, you sometimes have to challenge the person's culture and values. Like I said, it can get complicated.

I hadn't thought of myself as the outsider in such a situation until last week. Dora's extended family got together to celebrate a collection of birthdays and an anniversary. At dinner I sat next to Mate (say "Ma-tey"). He's a law student. He's very smart and very opinionated. He and I don't see eye-to-eye on every issue, and that's okay. But I always try to challenge his take on the Roma (Gypsy) population. He believes that many of Hungary's problems stem from the Roma. Last week I spent at least fifteen minutes listening to Mate explain how the Roma are destroying his country.

I have very little patience for this kind of talk. I believe Hungarians who hold Mate's view are trying to shift the responsibility for the nation's many serious problems to a minority population - a population that has very little political or financial power. The issues that have hampered Hungary's growth are rampant corruption, the public acceptance of tax fraud, and a bloated bureaucratic government that provides very little when you consider people are supposed to pay 50% of their income in taxes. It is absurd to blame these kinds of problems on a group that composes no more than 10% of the population (and that figure is considered a gross overestimate by many).

I've tried to confront Mate's view directly. I've tried to question Mate's assumptions. I've tried acting stupid and forcing him to explain what it is that the Roma have done to make his life so difficult (his life is not very difficult btw). Whenever I get anywhere close to making a point, my views are dismissed. Since I am not Hungarian, I cannot understand how serious the problem is. So my questions and arguments are moot.

My beliefs keep me at arms length from this debate, but it's frustrating because I live here. I am a part of the community - but not really.

Strange as this may sound, I'm thankful for the experience. As a white heterosexual male with a stable family background, it is difficult for me to understand what it means to be a member of a community who lacks certain rights or abilities. This is a rather minor example of that, but it provides some insight.

12 comments:

Michael Ryan Maxwell said...

Hogan, I really like your take and description of this issue - the outsiders critique of social oppression. I feel like you laid out the background really well - as well as dug into a great description of how this plays out personally with Mate.

But then the rest fell flat. Where's the great analysis you usually do? What implications does your interactions with Mate carry? I got into this one, but then you wrapped it up with your privileged status (which I share).

Nice post (great writing, strong example, good hook) for sure - but I'm left wanting more.

gabor.tobias said...

A Hungarian says this Mate is a jerk, and I am sorry for you Hogan, to even have to listen such people. Actually I am sorry for the guy as well, because probably he heard it from parents and/or peers. None of whom had a bad experience with gypsies, just heard things. I think it is the responsibility of the parents to teach their kids to always listen to both sides of the story, seek facts, and don’t believe in urban legends.

Hogan, you are a too good person! You are way too kind to people even who don’t deserve it. You want to know what is the motivation behind these people's anger and hate.

There a lot of people like this guy in Hungary. Sitting conveniently in their jobs and/or 7-8-9 years at university, good outlook, clear future, and with zero contact to roma people and the root of their problems. These guys should be confronted and, once you find out that you cannot disprove their stupid concepts, leave them alone in their said misery. Or actually you shouldn’t. You should keep on “fighting” back until he stops. Because it all starts in the heads, with a speech, with groups of people talking about stories, generalizing, distorting, and drawing sweeping statements that are based on rumors, (inferiority) complexes and have very little or no relation to reality.

Of course there are problems, which root in the desperate situation of some Roma people. I don’t say I know the solution, I don’t even know every detail of the problem! But I know for sure that problems can not be solved by demonizing a group of people and calling them enemies of a country. We have seen that… ummmmm… a bit more than 70 years ago. Remember that Austrian dude??? You think that cannot happen again in the 21 century, the 3rd millennium? I really really hope you are right and there are enough brakes in the democratic system!!!

Anti said...

Hi Hogan, I'm Antal from one of your Babilon groups (also posting a comment on Facebook for the identification :)). I am commenting here to add another insider view to this hot issue here in Hungary.

I absolutely agree with your statement, that the basic problems lie in the widely accepted corruption and tax fraud, unsuccessful government and inefficient public sector. These problems do not have anything to do with the Roma community, but many frustrated and hopeless people find the scapegoat in external groups, such as the Roma, the Jews, the EU, the multinational companies etc. This means that a better government solving at least a part of these basic problems could ease the symptoms, even if not touching the roots of the problem.

The roots are much deeper than that.
1. Many people have a way too generalising negative opinion about the Roma community as a whole, without any distinction between different subgroups or individuals, and this makes it very hard for Roma people to get proper education, find jobs etc. This is clearly the responsibility of the non-Roma majority.

2. There are also historical reasons: the Roma population is concentrated in areas, where there are generally less opportunities: in peripherical rural areas, former industrial towns etc. In these areas the economic disadvantages concern both Roma and non-Roma population.

3. It would be hard to deny that a part of the problem lies within the Roma community. There are some aggressive Roma gangs committing violent attacks (e.g. the murder of Marian Cozma or the murder of that teacher in Olaszliszka), and many Roma families live in a way that is not compatible with the values of the non-Roma majority (e.g. small-value stealths, little ambition to change their situation). Of course there are good examples too - villages with successful integration, middle-class Roma families -, but the overall situation is far from normal.

On top of this, governments spent huge amounts of money on Roma integration without any success, probably because these amounts got lost on their way. And the Roma political class is just as corrupt as their non-Roma counterparts...

Hogan said...

Thanks for the kind words, Ryan. Truth told I did kind of rush the end here - partially on purpose, partially because I had to do the dishes.

The on purpose part, however, was so I could hear from people like Gabor and Antal (hey Antal, I remember those classes well).
Because what I referred to as the Hungarian 'community' was in fact established by Hungarians. They do have more perspective on how these issues play out in the street and in the houses of government. I think the comments here show that there are many Hungarians who have considered this issue with level heads and serious questions. That comforts me.

I did like this question: "What implications [do] your interactions with Mate carry?" In other words, What does it mean when an 'outsider' persists in his/her attempt to gain entry?
I think that it speaks to the outsider's desire to gain entry into the community - full entry with all its privileges. I also think it is the engine of change for most communities. I like to think the contentious push and pull between the two forces works to winnow out the beliefs and characteristics that could be destructive to the community. Sadly history is loaded with examples showing that this is not always the case. Still, I think there are enough cases in which this process works - enough to merit a bit of hope.
Did you hear that the US elected a member of a minority group to the highest office in the land? It just happened like a year ago.

Hogan said...

One other thing: In Mate's defense, he is not a jerk. The conversations we've had are always civil. He does listen. He simply thinks I am misunderstanding an important element of his argument.

Anonymous said...

I posted my answer on Facebook

Máté the jerk:)

gabor.tobias said...

One implication of your interaction with Mate (and posting it):

I got carried away, without knowing him. I am sorry. It usually happens when we touch topics that has to do with race, religion and such. I have a prejudice against prejudice. And I am not a gipsy nor jewish.

Not that it would make a difference how you interpret my comment, would it?

Wait a minute... there is something between these lines, I am just not educated enough to read (post) it out...

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Unknown said...

Gabor Tobias, u probably don't have a life, bet u watching Barátokközt all day long...

http://kuruc.info/r/34/51987/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jprLvrlV-40

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VUb3Xe3TG8&feature=related

Hogan said...

@Rider
The events in those videos are disturbing. They are the symptoms of some serious problems:
An ineffective police force

A government that has deserted its rural communities

A failure to create jobs for low-skill/no-skill workers

Tax law and employment statues that discourage businesses from hiring

An angry and desperate poor population (that includes a shirtless kid clearly on PCP)

And the list goes on, but how is scapegoating the Gypsy population going to help?

It is easy to say someone else is to blame for the problems in this country. In the five years I've lived here, that's all I've ever heard. One party blames the other. Ethnocentrists blame minorities. The rich blame the poor. The poor blame the rich. Nationalists blame neighboring countries. Progressives blame the nationalists.

But no one has done anything to make this country better. It is stagnating while everybody whines about how it's someone else's fault- or worse they firebomb the houses of people they blame.

Not helping. Sack up and address the real problems, Rider.

Stop posting videos about scary Gypsies on the internet, and demand your publicly elected officials...
A) fund and train the police better
B) reform the tax law so business will come to Hungary for the cheap countryside labor
C) fix the welfare system and
D) put this country on a path toward development.

I anticipate this response: "Oh, that's easy for you to say, but the system is corrupt. I can't fix it."

And if that is your response, then please understand this: You and your complacent countrymen are part of the problem. You live in a non-functioning democracy because people like you refuse to participate in the effort required to move the nation into the 21st century.